Michigan Congresswoman Dingell praises tariffs but says Trump’s approach is creating chaos

President Donald Trump’s flurry of tariffs is already forcing changes in the auto industry.

Stellantis is temporarily stopping production at some factories in Windsor, Ontario and in Mexico while laying-off workers in Michigan and Indiana.

It’s also offering discount pricing for customers. So is Ford Motor Company.

Some foreign automakers vow not to raise their prices either, for now.

But financial experts still predict a big hike coming in the cost of a vehicle after a tariff on imported auto parts takes effect in May.

The upheaval concerns Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, who spent more than three decades in the car business.

Dingell told WDET that she believes tariffs can be useful, but Congress may still try to revoke Trump’s authority to levy them.

Listen: Dingell talks tariffs, unions, NAFTA and where Trump is going wrong

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

U.S. Rep. Debbie Dingell: I think tariffs are a tool in the toolbox so that we are competing on a level playing field with China, who subsidizes production, owns the companies and doesn’t pay a decent wage. But what’s been done the last couple of weeks has just created chaos. It’s impacting the economy. I’ve talked to multiple lawyers who are still trying to interpret what was announced for Canada and Mexico and the impact on the auto industry. We’ve seen what the market has done. We need an industrial policy that brings manufacturing back to this country. Not only do I want to see the auto plants here but we have a steel issue that’s a national security issue as much as it is an economic security issue. And when you talk about pharmaceuticals, 80% to 90% of the drugs that we need are made in China and India. We need to bring that production home. But we have to have an integrated policy that incentivizes that. And you can’t do it overnight. If everything goes totally right, and when is the last time anything went totally right, it takes 2.5 to 3 years to build a new plant. So I’m concerned about how this is being done. I will work with anyone to bring manufacturing back here, to have a level playing field, but you’ve got to do it in a way that doesn’t create chaos.

Quinn Klinefelter, WDET News: Automakers often seem to treat the U.S., Mexico and Canada as one big country. They have parts go back and forth across the borders repeatedly. In your view, should the auto tariffs treat Canada and/or Mexico differently than they would China or some other country?

DD: I think NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was one of the worst pieces of trade legislation because it did take our plants away. Many of them were relocated to Mexico. They left cities devastated. And a Mexican worker is making $3 while a worker in this country is making $30 an hour. And I think that’s a fair wage. When the president was in his first term I worked with his administration when they renegotiated. They got rid of NAFTA. They negotiated the USMCA, the U.S., Mexico and Canada trade relationship. And the auto companies are operating under that agreement. I do believe that we need to renegotiate USMCA, because it allows China to put a plant in Mexico and then market it as a North America product.

QK: Some of the people who have praised tariffs as a good thing have been somewhat surprising to those that follow politics. For instance, the president of the United Auto Workers Union, Shawn Fain, was a pretty vocal critic of President Trump during the most recent campaign. But he has endorsed the new auto tariffs as a good way to try to keep jobs in the U.S. or increase U.S. manufacturing. Does it surprise you that organized labor would come out in that fashion?

DD: I think that organized labor is more where I am in that they think tariffs are a useful tool in the toolbox. There needs to be a strategy and people don’t understand what the strategy is. But I told people in 2016 Donald Trump was going to win, and everybody thought I was crazy — I wasn’t — because he understood how workers felt about seeing their jobs shipped overseas. How could they compete when there’s not a level playing field and workers were being paid such low wages in Mexico, they weren’t making a living wage. By the way, I think Canada and Mexico are two different countries and I think it’s time to treat them as such. Canada would never let China build a plant in Canada and market it as a North American vehicle. But I’m not surprised by union support for tariffs because workers are the ones who have felt the pain. But it’s the way this is being done. I go in the union halls and workers are glad to see somebody fighting for them. But they are also worried about increased costs. So it’s got to be done the right way, strategically. You can’t do it overnight and it can’t be done chaotically.

QK: Do you have any concerns that, as some analysts predict, tariffs overall could push the U.S. economy back into a recession?

DD: I think we have to be very careful. I think everybody’s concerned when you see what the market has done. And I want to see our economy strong, I want to see it thrive. I want to see jobs come back to this country. And I hear the economic concerns of workers who are worried about the grocery prices, worried about whether they can afford their home. And quite frankly, workers want to know their job is safe.

QK: The president had the power to start levying these tariffs because he declared a national economic emergency when he took office. Congress can revoke that authority. The U.S. Senate recently took what was in some ways a symbolic vote to do that, at least in regards to Canadian tariffs. But the House can’t really follow suit because of a procedural maneuver that was used by the speaker of the House. Is that kind of the end of Congress’ options regarding tariffs or is there any more that could be done?

DD: I think that you will be seeing further action in the House in the next couple of weeks to do something similar to what was done in the Senate. Stay tuned.